Important Notice:
We regret to inform you that our free phpBB forum hosting service will be discontinued by the end of June 30, 2024.
If you wish to migrate to our paid hosting service, please contact billing@hostonnet.com.
| Author |
Message |
Job McBadass
Douche (Retired)
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 920
Location: In the Moment
Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:16 pm |
 Post subject: |
 |
|
| fnspidey wrote: | So will I still have people to discuss Watchmen with when I finally watch it on Thursday?  |
I expect GRAIL will still be talking about it for the next two weeks or so. Then, back to Pokemon cards or some such.
_________________
love,
Job |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
 |
| Author |
Message |
taonggyera
You Can't Stop The Anger
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 324
Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:29 pm |
| Post subject: |
|
|
| fnspidey wrote: | | So will I still have people to discuss Watchmen with when I finally watch it on Thursday? |
Wow, you haven't seen it ?
Better hurry up, pal. Before Star Cinema comes riding into theaters with
their crap...
And to, Job...well, yes.
One of the greatest things about the film is how they made the characters, along the milieu, far more realistic than they were in
the comics. To the point where turning the material film would really seem like a major slap in Alan Moore's face - for making evident that live-action has ADVANTAGES.
Chief of which is that, is, well, you simply get to punctuate the reality a lot more with real, live folks ( duh ! ). And then some.
This is what I have realized earlier coming in, with the trailers, clips and everything ( though I had to reverse my presumptions a bit : Dr. Manhattan didn't come off the most human of the bunch. He was in fact, SCARIER, and more HARROWING a prescence. Like there is certainly something VERY WRONG committed upon his spawning, and one that humanity will end up having to pay for somewhere down the line. And HE DOESN'T CARE. ).
Because, really, it's one thing to be seeing and experiencing this thing from the comic, amidst previous background, and ideational association with the traditional Silver Age sanitized template it still nonetheless feeds off and blankets it. You know, for example, that you are reading about Dr. Manhattan, but you can't help but perceive him as a Superman variant, a few moments short of getting a thought bubble up his noggin. The storied character templates of Kirby, and Buscema, and Curt Swan just gets at you and colors your perception, as you read this. Ergo, you will always see them as far more idealized than they actually would be, than they actually are, or even as they are written.
Take out that sheath, and baggage of several years of enculturization , and you reveal the grime, and the grit, and the dirt lying underneath them ALL ALONG.
Look at it this way : a buncha well-trained, physically honed people beating down the baddies would probably look A HELL OF A LOT UGLIER in real life.
So would actual, grand smart men bent on destroying the planet in order to save it. Their initial prescence won't scream ' villian ! ' upon their arrival, but you bet they'd seem far more unhealthy. And a lot less clean. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
fnspidey
Guest
Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:46 pm |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Author |
Message |
taonggyera
You Can't Stop The Anger
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 324
Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:21 pm |
| Post subject: |
|
|
It's been a week since I've actually watched the Watchmen.
Wow. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Author |
Message |
Job McBadass
Douche (Retired)
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 920
Location: In the Moment
Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:26 pm |
| Post subject: |
|
|
WATCHMAN VS VENDETTA
_________________
love,
Job |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Author |
Message |
fnspidey
Guest
Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:02 pm |
| Post subject: |
|
|
| PANALO SI TREE HANDRED |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Author |
Message |
Job McBadass
Douche (Retired)
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 920
Location: In the Moment
Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:25 am |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Author |
Message |
The Goddamn
Insert Your Expletive Here!
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 111
Location: I live on the second floor
Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:53 am |
| Post subject: |
|
|
Just saw the trailer. Wow. I don''t know what to say.
I'm at a loss for words.
_________________
Batman doesn't have any superpowers... except his money. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Author |
Message |
Job McBadass
Douche (Retired)
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 920
Location: In the Moment
Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:07 am |
| Post subject: |
|
|
How about "Looks like I'll be shelling out 2k next year."
Or this year, depending on how the wind changes.
_________________
love,
Job |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Author |
Message |
fnspidey
Guest
Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:13 am |
| Post subject: |
|
|
I think I'm going to have to buy this.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
taonggyera
You Can't Stop The Anger
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 324
Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:27 pm |
| Post subject: |
|
|
| Job McBadass wrote: | How about "Looks like I'll be shelling out 2k next year."
Or this year, depending on how the wind changes. |
Black Freighter, or the Extended Watchmen DVD ?
I'm kind of liking the ommision of the human stories, now; actually. Makes it out to be a completely different film. That is always good. I stand by it, it's Watchmen in it's own way. The filmmakers understood it as a phenomenon to the culture. It's more ' capes and cowl ' centric, that would make Alan Moore legacy-bashing types proud. Although I realize once more why taking these out became detrimental to the film, with it's potential for further appeal. And it's not just in being unable to hear out the other characters we've grown fond of . *
Actually flipped through the OGN again, and realized the whole ' Bernies ' schtick serves more as an aid to pacing issues more than anything. Specifically, the transition between the funeral bit and the Dr. Manhattan frame-up episode, grounding the entire proceedings down to the single, underlying, consistent matter : namely, '80s Cold War-era esque paranoia and it's general milieu.
W/c is, as I realize, is THE connective tissue of the original story. Probably more than anyone would tend to realize.
And it's not only in the sense the ' everyday people perspective ', though it is a major part of the whole deal. And, it isn't like the movie completely forgot about this. But, by subordinating this in favor of refocusing solely and exclusively on the superheroes and what they mean to the culture may have been what mangled the proceedings quite a bit ( as a lot, including me, have observed ), and made it all seem disjointed.
' Coz these parts aren't as well-tied together as the screenwriters and Snyder probably hoped they would be, especially upon literally lifting them from the book - and if so, would come across rather scant. Simply because they were not intended that way. The shock and general impact of Ozymandias' plot as Alan Moore has written it ( especially that squid ) is supposed to be hinged in such a context, in the sense of it feeling like a larger conspiracy that involves us all, and real-world geopolitik - not just something a few people in capes and cowls came up with, much less the matter of them resolving these issues amongst themselves. I remember being ticked off when Snyder went on saying it's not gonna be focusing on politics, and THAT'S probably the reason why.
Not because it doesn't deal much with politics perse, but that being at the heart of the novel's intentions, right down, it seems to it's very construction. It's a superhero movie that not only evokes the milieu perse, largely as a mood, but dares to CONFRONT it, address it's issues, tackles and discusses them, and feels relevant and prescient regarding the problems of our world - not just in the sense of these as presented in films, namely superhero ones,, and the parameters around which the costumed freak has been previously allowed to deal with them on celluloid.
Almost to the point of the book being political textbook itself, if anyone else would allow, ' coz that clearly is where Alan Moore's mind is at in this. ( The smiley face won't be such a central imagery for nothing. Might as well toy around with the Superman logo, and stick with that, if this guy was only invested on the endeavor in the cultural sense ).
It's a mature, dense, sophisticated, socio-political thriller that happened to have superheroes in it. That is what future writers ( Bendis, Hickmann, Brubaker, Millar, et al ), has taken and run with. That's what evolved superhero writing since.
That's what, in fact, made the work adult. ' Coz the premise of heroes graphically maiming, and killing, and careless whisper ain't as spectacular a concept. We already know they do those things.
Probably it's why the movie doesn't seem as transcendent as it should have been for most. It also may as well be the reason why people not as invested in superhero stuff came out often feeling empty : that conceit was such a major part of the novel, and taking it out leaves a particularly major void.
Put that all back in, though, and it literally becomes ' The Dark Knight '.
I just woke up this afternoon.
* Seriously, could anyone imagine the major careless whisper of bringing the psychologist, the detectives, the cab driver, etc. into the film as well? It would have reduced it into a ' Babel '-esque melodrama, starring people having hang-ups about things we don't care about, and zero to do with our actual, real world situation, bloated and overtly inflated, that made this superhero thing more important than it actually is. That would have been the ' Batman and Robin ' of drama; an shameful parody of social cinema. And if ' The Hulk ' actually taught us any lesson, it is to NOT go art film on a superhero film in THAT way. Exactly why I'm not as grieving their exclusions.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
fnspidey
Guest
Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:15 pm |
| Post subject: |
|
|
While your point was well-argued, and I respect you for that, my opinion still stands.
See, to me, it's not so much as cramming too much into the film as making us care about the conclusion. It's not so much as putting everything in as striking a PROPER balance.
Honestly, I would have cared more for the ending if I knew more about those two people hugging - I would've gotten more of a sense of "holy your poetry, these people - not just extras, not just walk-ins on the set conveniently placed there to populate the last scene - are going to die." That sure hits harder than "I am Veidt, not gay, and I killed 15 million people, trust me and my sixteen bajillion television sets."
I also think that the reactions of the people at the end...well...let's just say that if I were to see a huge blue ball materializing in the middle of the Academic Oval and destroying things around me, my first reaction wouldn't be to hug the random person beside me, it would be to RUN LIKE careless whisper HELL in the opposite direction. Who the careless whisper cares if I don't make it, I don't give a your poetry, that thing is uprooting careless whisper TREES and messing up people's jewelry and your poetry and I'm not just gonna stand there and watch.
But but but Bernie didn't hug just a random person, you say. The person he hugged was the boy who frequented his little newspaper stall - someone with whom he had developed some semblance of a friendship, a kinship, over the past few days. His reaction was so totally normal. They were fearful for their lives, so they hugged each other.
If that's the case, well, they suuuuuuure did a greeeeat job showing that.
[SPIDER-EDIT! My point being, it's not my job to figure all of this stuff out by myself. It's not my job to read the book beforehand. It's THEIR job, the filmmakers' job, to make damn sure I understand why these things are happening in the movie. (Added because I just reread my post and realized this should be included)]
I'm not demanding EVERYTHING from the comic to be put into the film. What I'm saying is it could have helped if we actually FELT the sense of dread, that Armageddon was coming, indirectly - through the newspaper headlines and some of the interactions of the people. Not just because of military guys moving clock hands at the beginning and talking 'round a table near the end of the film. Not just because Veidt said so.
Watchmen the book wasn't written as a traditional superhero book - not written to emphasize gaudy costumes and superheroics. No, to me, Watchmen SURPASSED that, and that's why I seem so butthurt at getting a movie adaptation that, in my eyes, reduced it to a film that was, as what ABS-CBN described it, "riding the bandwagon of superhero flicks in recent years."
Awright, time for me to shut up and complain about Dudepeel. 
Last edited by fnspidey on Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
taonggyera
You Can't Stop The Anger
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 324
Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:45 pm |
| Post subject: |
|
|
| fnspidey wrote: | While your point was well-argued, and I respect you for that, my opinion still stands.
|
No, actually I agree with the geist of it. I see where most of it is coming from. Which is why I'm not as adamant protesting it or anything.
There are serious pacing and storytelling problems prevalent throughout the entire thing ( and, like I said, probably due to their decision to take out, and nearly negate the actual connective issue in the film, for something more streamlined, and superhero-focused ), which, whoever is looking at this, cannot deny in their gut exists. You KNOW this is the reason why the film feels more mundane than it actually is, or perhaps should have been, and as to why it may have not elicited the same level of visceral impact among the audience as ' The Dark Knight ' ( still remaining the best amongst this genre ).Nobody in their right mind can deny so.
Thing was, the way they went with the ending is something that's always bound to come across to people one way or another, anyways. Again it depends - though unfortunately not in the sense of preference or even taste, but the extent of which anyone would try to apologize or rationalize for what they did.
Often times, the apologia for this film would even have less to do with the quality of the film itself, but the worthiness of the endeavor itself. Being one that, admittedly, was heavily all about the technicals, it only makes sense that people end up paying , and perhaps too much, attention on how they build the whole thing.
In any case, the onus nonetheless rests completely on the director. Ultimately, it shouldn't be up to the audience to make the film good for him and/or her. It's the filmmaker's job, to evoke that, and make it come across to the viewer. This is referred to as ' mass communication ' for a reason.
If there is anything in the world I careless whisper despise, it's artists or creators or whatever making me have to do that; to lie down and accept and deal with it, and only appreciate the effort or something. ( For one thing, I didn't come into the cinemas for that ' effort ' , I came to watch the PRODUCT ). This is why, for examply I absolutely LOATHED ' 300 ', and why it would never be the ' video game masterpiece ' whatever to me. And probably never will.
But with what Snyder did this time, it seems, uneven as it was, some elements or parts of it stand out that possess a certain, special worth and significance, perhaps some of which you haven't found in the original comic, and that which you don't really find in superhero movies up until this point - hell, you wouldn't find in seeing this all as just an adaptation of the comic ( mine, included ). That for some reason, a few other people have noticed and have found valid. You can probably say the same thing for ' 300 ' - I was equally looking for a pure, proper, Frank Miller adaptation myself, and not just bland xerox - and... well it fails significantly in strictly filmic terms, so sorry.
( Parts of it looked like they were being played out in a THEATER, or some room, and not an actual, organic landscape. I imagine history not being kind to this in a few years, though as always, I may be wrong )
At the end of the day, it's all about the extent of which anyone will be able to live with the flaws, and reconcile the output with its more positive merits ( of which are quite several ), as well as the film-viewing experience they got off of it. Lots of opinions varying there.
And this is what makes it a largely individual affair. It's also why this cut will continue to, and forever remain problematic.
I'm just sayin'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
fnspidey
Guest
Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:05 pm |
| Post subject: |
|
|
| taonggyera wrote: | | Often times, the apologia for this film would even have less to do with the quality of the film itself, but the worthiness of the endeavor itself. Being one that, admittedly, was heavily all about the technicals, it only makes sense that people end up paying , and perhaps too much, attention on how they build the whole thing. |
Yes, I can say I agree with that, to a certain extent.
| Quote: | | Ultimately, it shouldn't be up to the audience to make the film good for him and/or her. It's the filmmaker's job, to evoke that, and make it come across to the viewer. This is referred to as ' mass communication ' for a reason. |
High five.
| Quote: | | At the end of the day, it's all about the extent of which anyone will be able to live with the flaws, and reconcile the output with its more positive merits ( of which are quite several ), as well as the film-viewing experience they got off of it. |
Well, yeah. We're both fans, and I believe we were both let down, though obviously in varying degrees. At the end of the day, we both just wanted a good film. So that probably puts us - and perhaps everyone else except Alan Moore (I'm mean AND kidding) on the same side.
So, let's wait for Watchmen 2: The Legend of the Comedian's Gold now.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
taonggyera
You Can't Stop The Anger
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 324
Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:45 pm |
| Post subject: |
|
|
| fnspidey wrote: | | So, let's wait for Watchmen 2: The Legend of the Comedian's Gold now. |
What gold ? I thought it was a frickin' crystal skull. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Author |
Message |
fnspidey
Guest
Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:13 am |
| Post subject: |
|
|
| taonggyera wrote: | | fnspidey wrote: | | So, let's wait for Watchmen 2: The Legend of the Comedian's Gold now. |
What gold ? I thought it was a frickin' crystal skull. |
Oh RIGHT! Yeah, Crystal Skull.
The gold's in that V for Vendetta sequel, right?
And 301, don't forget 301. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Author |
Message |
Job McBadass
Douche (Retired)
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 920
Location: In the Moment
Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:07 pm |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Author |
Message |
fnspidey
Guest
Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:37 pm |
| Post subject: |
|
|
Grazie, amico. |
|
| Back to top |
|
  |
Page 3 of 3 |
All times are GMT + 8 Hours
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
phpBB skin developed by: eXtremepixels
|
